Ah, so you dont think Jews deserve a homeland?


This is somehow considered an argument when speaking of Palestine… you go through the historic facts, the expulsion of Palestinians, the lack of legitimacy for the establishment of the state of Israel, the current hellish conditions the Palestinians live under… and they (zionists) cough and say ‘Ah, so you don’t think that Jews deserve a homeland?’… as if this somehow will floor you and render your argument of anti-israel/zionism somewhat invalid!!! There is a slang term in arabic used when someone uses something totally unrelated as a response in a discussion ‘shoo jaab 6oz la-mar7aba?’ (the polite english version is ‘and what does that have to do with the price of eggs?’).

41 Responses

  1. And look how insolent their argument is! “we want a hoemland so we are free to take over other people’s homeland” is that what they are trying to say? It’s not even an argument, kicking people from their homes so you can have it for yourself… it’s not about having any homeland, they could as well have in in the pacific, it’s about the promised land, that specific land!

  2. I agree, it is an insolent arrogant argument… I want it, give it to me!

    Is it about the promised land though? I think it may be about that for some, but for others it was an excuse… and the location.

    The Zionists knew they would not get a european country, and their aim is to ‘reenetr europe strong’… they want to be european (or remain european in most cases), and Palestine is close enough with the added holiness in Judaism.

    If it was only about the holy land, they would have never even considered uganda as an option… but they did.

  3. I agree that the way that the way Palestine was carved up in 1947 was outrageous given the demographics of the region.

    As a European Australian I empathise with both communities given I am a child of the colonial power but at the same time a person who seeks a place called home.

    As a child, at school, I was taught a load of rubbish regarding indigenous Australians given it followed the colonialist narrative. Similarly, as a child watching cowboy and ‘Indian’ movies ‘we’ as an audience were given the impression the cowboys were good and the ‘Indians’ were bad. A critical post-colonialist analysis of history quickly puts this down to propaganda.

    There is much we can learn from the abomination of coloniation, or the domination of one people over another.

    But my caution is this is not limited to Europeans. Any group is capable of dehumanising another. The progression from oppressed group to oppressor can happen within a generation.

    I have put-together a blog on conflict and specifically the Palestinian-Israeli conflict if you would like to consider it.

    http://palestineisraelsolutions.blogspot.com/

  4. Thanks for visiting my blog stewart, I will read through your blog.

    With regards to what you are saying, about one group dehumanising another. It is a common european strategy when they want something from another land. We can see it (in a watered down degree) in the middle east today, how small nuances muslims exhibit, or any imperfections are blown up to mammoth scales. How Blair is now pandering to the extremist right (i.e. the BNP–scary)… and so far it seems to work, in the America’s and Australia. Other colonies, namely those in Africa are ridding themsleves of europeaness, in various ways, but are still recovering from the wrongs done to them during the european colonisation. Many europeans are today beginning to realise this, hence the governments wishing to gain from the tummult in the middle east must tread more carefully than their ancestors did… but still those in the way (so to speak) are being subjected to levels of demonisation, and the plantation of doubt among, so that brother fights brother.

    Now, there are no imagined wrongs from the zionists, it is real and it is a fact. I have tried to understand their point of view, from their websites and books they have written, and again and again i come up against the same thing… they have inhereted the european tradition of 1)dehumanise the enemy 2)the gift of the classic ‘fork tongue’ 3) double standards and 4) doing anything to get their goal. So the deaths of gazan families is poo pooed away as a ‘techinical fault’. The imprisonment of entire cities and towns, the prevention of ambulances and sick people from travelling to hospital is explained as a ‘security necessity’. The blowing of oneself up at a checkpoint is labelled ‘resident evil’.

    There is no love lost between arabs and zionists… but I say we should not hate everything about them, because unlike us (who are forced to roam the world thus being sbjected to all sides of the argument, since their side is more widely populised in western media) they are, by and large, ignorant of what their beloved state is doing. Those who have seen what happens, tend to change their minds, it happens even with the state of israel soldiers who served in the west bank and gaza, who start to advertise what their army is doing. I do not believe in ‘pure evil’, nor do I agree or support any dehumanisation of zionists… who knows? maybe they really are totally brain washed. But I cannot stomach those who know what is going on, and continue with their campaign.

    Now, to clarify, I do not live in the middle east. The news I watch and read is the BBC, and british newspapers., so am not so influences by the arab take on things.. yet, my pro-palestine stance grew stronger here. Because when u see the other side of the argument, in this case, u realise how wrong they are.

    apologies for the long reply🙂

  5. Please continue to seek the good in the other.

    This is one step towards peace.

    Jay Rothman, in ‘Resolving Identity-based Conflict’ (1997) reminds us “Who is the hero?’ Ask the rabbis of the Talmud. Their answer: ‘One who changes an enemy into a [friend].”

    Steps towards peace have been advanced by many Jewish critics who at great risk to themselves advocate for an end to the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

    See:

    http://palestineisraeljewishcritics.blogspot.com/

    It is a slow process. But we can have hope that peace will bve fopund just as soon as people realise that violence will not solve the problem. Violence only will excacerbate the conflict. For people to coexist there needs to be trust and not fear.

    All the best in your efforts for dialogue and the promotion of peace through reason in the New Year!

    Regards,

    Stewart Mills
    Sydney, Australia

  6. I checked the blog, many are familiar names. May I also add ‘Jews for Justice for Palestine’ (UK based), Neturei Karta (Palestine-USA), and I believe the director of the british ‘Deir Yassin Remembered’ is also jewish. None of this is news to me, in fact it makes perfect sense, I think it is Neturei Karta that accuse the zionist regime of hijacking the jewish faith, and Norman Finkelstein (Jewish-American academic) also argues that not only have they (the zionists) hijacked jewish faith but also the history of jewish suffering at european hands.

    The issue here is not the religions of the people involved, there are Palestinian Jews, founders of Neturei Karta! who condemn the state of israel and are supporters of a Palestinian state. The issue here is oppressor vs. oppressed, invader vs. indigeneous people, ‘a land without a people for a people without a land’ established in an ancient, well populated land.

    Now, you are an educated man, and since you are studying the Palestine-Israel conflict, you are well aware of the history of the establishment of the zionist state, and the ensuing racism which followed. Including the ethnic cleansing of lands seized in 1948, and the continued campaign to eradicate the land from it’s arab inhabitants till this day. Through brute force, demorialisation, starvation and imprisonment.

    All peace processes have managed to get the palestinians to conceded yet more of what little they have. Even now, the tax revenues, by right belonging to the PA, worth $800million have been withheld by Israel, and only $100mill has been returned to Mahmoud Abbas, the issue of the captured palestinian members of palestinian parliament have been swept away.

    To trust the state of israel, after such a track record, and without them doing something to earn it, would be downright stupid at this point.

  7. Just to clarify, I was not suggesting to blindly trust the present Israeli administration. I only raised the issue of trust as we need to keep this in mind as an end goal for the attainment of peace.

    However, of course in order to get to this goal there must be a certain level of healthy scepticism. My thesis points this out, especially towards the Israeli government:

    “The [third] chapter concludes that the Israeli leadership only superficially demonstrates a movement towards peace. The evidence of a the West Bank Wall built beyond the Green Line, continuation in settlement expansion by Israel highlights that the tried and tested expansionist approach of ‘getting facts on the ground’ is preferable as it advances future bargaining power. ”

    http://palestineisraelresolvingtheconflict1.blogspot.com/;
    http://palestineisraelconclusions.blogspot.com/

    On the issues of Jewish critics of the occupation, I did include some of the organisations you suggested, but on a separate site:
    http://palestineisraelsolutionsreconcil.blogspot.com/

    You might be interested in participating in a blog between myself and a South African regarding Jimmy Carter’s book.

    http://myrightword.blogspot.com/2006/12/coming-up-carter-vs-dershowitz.html

    Thanks again,

    Stewart Mills,
    Sydney, Australia

  8. thanks for the links, I have yet to read Jimmy Carters book. Will have a read through the final blog soon… you always have alot for me to read🙂

  9. To see Jimmy Carter’s comments on his book and to watch Norman Finkelstein’s positive review of the book see:

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/08/1414201

    I was notified of this interview when I viewed the University of Cork’s Palestine Solidarity Campaign website. It is a really helpful site.

    http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/home.php

    Regards

    Stewart Mills
    Sydney, Australia

  10. Thanks! will check them out!

  11. well the transcript of the debate between Finkelstein and Troy reminded me of an argument once used by a zionist against the use of the word apartheid when referring to the wall, ‘it is not apartheid, in south africa they did not let the whites and blacks share a bus, that is apartheid’. *sigh*

  12. A lot of problems surrounding the middle east have to do with Isreal. The more I read and learn about Irael, the more I see giving the Jews a homeland was a mistake. The US will eventually pay for siding with Isreal. We already have, it’s called 911.

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